What is causing necrosis in my plants? - Page 3

Tech Support LK · #21 10-08-2009, 10:10

Necrosis or tissue death is ultimately what will happen is a plant is starved of necessary elements for long enough. Your substrate is an inert substrate. Assuming (based on this discussion) that you were not using Flourish Tabs to add nutrients for the root system until only a week ago, I would venture to guess that the swords are being starved of some nutrient/s based on the fact that there really wasn't anything available to their roots. Just a guess. Additionally, what I recall from previous conversations is that you do not dose any iron supplements to your aquarium either. If this is true, then I am even more confident that the deficiency can be resolved using the Flourish Tabs.

One other thought is that you mentioned the addition of salt to the aquarium for whatever reason. Are you still adding this? If not, have you completely changed the water to remove the chlorides? This could certainly be another culprit.

LabTest57 · #22 10-08-2009, 11:48

My chloride and salt levels are really low. Also, for some reason all the algae (including black algae) are dying in my tank on all the ornamnets, gravel, filters, etc. My nitrates are at ~20 ppm as well.

Water parameters:

pH 6.8
kH 3
gH 7

What is a better way to give more concentrated doses of iron to my plants, by using Flourish Iron (1%), or Flourish tabs (2.2% per tab)?

LabTest57 · #23 10-08-2009, 12:48

Here's some new pictures of the amazon sword plant, how it looks one day later (today):

Tech Support AN · #24 10-08-2009, 16:08

Thanks for the pictures. Both Flourish Iron and Flourish Tabs are highly concentrated products and I truly believe that with continued use, you will begin to see your plants thrive. Now, if your plants are suffering from any kind of root rot like you previously mentioned, then you may not see them rebound as easily. I just experienced what can happen if your plants have this and it is not good. I maintain a 250 gallon heavily planted tank where a lot of the plants appeared to have black rotten roots with a pretty nasty odor, and needless to say, they did not recover. The pebbles that you are using as your substrate, do they contain any nutrients at all? If not, you may want to consider switching to a different substrate that contains nutrients for root uptake, such as our Flourite. :-)

LabTest57 · #25 10-08-2009, 17:40

How can I order 260 pounds of flourite?

LabTest57 · #26 10-08-2009, 17:50

Oh, I did not check out the calculator on the flourite product page. I guess it's more accurate than I thought. 13 bags, ~15.5 lbs per bag = ~200 lbs. Are their any consequences to pre-washing the flourite with high pressure water and/or water with acidic properties?

Trying to look at things in a much easier way: Should I just replace 25% to 50% of my substrate with flourite, instead?

LabTest57 · #27 10-08-2009, 23:13

Unfortunately, the necrosis is accelerating very fast to all the plants. All the algae in my tank is nearly gone. How can algae die off so quick in two days?

Also, I may have to re-plant my tank in the future. I guess this counts as an experiment, and the conclusion is: "do not leave any plant w/o proper nutrients for more than a month". Whether it is true or not, if you follow all my threads that ask about what I can add to my plants, you will see that it's been a few months that I haven't added anything to keep my plants healthy, except for potassium. Potassium is only good if there's at least some trace amounts of micro nutrients for the plant. Sometimes people dose either every day or once a week, however, it depends on how many plants they have, too. Up to ten plants for a 160 gallon aquarium, I consider it a low-planted tank as my plants lasted several months w/o proper amounts of nutrients. Lighting is only a factor if you want the plants to grow more, because at low light they will grow very slow. A lot of micro nutrients is another factor only for high growth aquariums. Anything I'm missing...?

Anyway, Iron is a priority and some trace amounts of other nutrients should suffice for low-planted aquariums, because most tap-waters contain a lot of macro nutrients like potassium, which gives a good taste to water (not sure if anyone ever tested this out). If I see my plants do well, I would later dose Potassium in larger quantaties. I hope I'm in the right path.... :)

Well, thanks for everyone's help, all this research and good information on this topic should help me in the long-run: "Having aquarium plants flourish and stay healthy" :)

regards,
John

Tech Support AN · #28 10-09-2009, 10:32

You are very welcome LabTest57! I'm glad that we could help!

[QUOTE=LabTest57;7215]Unfortunately, the necrosis is accelerating very fast to all the plants. All the algae in my tank is nearly gone. How can algae die off so quick in two days?

Also, I may have to re-plant my tank in the future. I guess this counts as an experiment, and the conclusion is: "do not leave any plant w/o proper nutrients for more than a month". Whether it is true or not, if you follow all my threads that ask about what I can add to my plants, you will see that it's been a few months that I haven't added anything to keep my plants healthy, except for potassium. Potassium is only good if there's at least some trace amounts of micro nutrients for the plant. Sometimes people dose either every day or once a week, however, it depends on how many plants they have, too. Up to ten plants for a 160 gallon aquarium, I consider it a low-planted tank as my plants lasted several months w/o proper amounts of nutrients. Lighting is only a factor if you want the plants to grow more, because at low light they will grow very slow. A lot of micro nutrients is another factor only for high growth aquariums. Anything I'm missing...?

Anyway, Iron is a priority and some trace amounts of other nutrients should suffice for low-planted aquariums, because most tap-waters contain a lot of macro nutrients like potassium, which gives a good taste to water (not sure if anyone ever tested this out). If I see my plants do well, I would later dose Potassium in larger quantaties. I hope I'm in the right path.... :)

Well, thanks for everyone's help, all this research and good information on this topic should help me in the long-run: "Having aquarium plants flourish and stay healthy" :)[/QUOTE]

You are very correct in saying "do not leave plants w/o the proper nutrients for a month" or anytime for that matter. :-) One thing I noticed that you did not specify being important is a carbon source. When you start over with your plants I highly recommend dosing both Flourish Excel (even if you use CO2) and Flourish Iron, along with Flourish Tabs. From there, I believe you will be able to see what else you are missing such as Potassium or whatever else that your plants may need, by showing signs of deficiency. However, with the use of Flourite and the other supplements that I suggested, I can almost guarantee you will see your plants thrive, as long as you also keep up good water quality with regular water changes. I say this because I also have a 37 gallon heavily planted tank that is doing fantastic, and all I do is dose Excel and Iron daily (except on weekends) and have Flourite substrate.

Furthermore, you can certainly change out 50% of the substrate if you would like. I would suggest mixing it in with the pebble substrate; therefore, your plants will still be able to utilize the nutrients from the Flourite and it will also look really nice together (in my opinion). You should post a pic when it's all done! :-)

Lastly, if you would PM us your city and zip, we would be more than happy to find a LFS that carries Flourite or that would be willing to order that amount for you.

LabTest57 · #29 10-15-2009, 18:03

Oh boy.....The flourish tabs seem to be working!

All my plants have stopped experiencing necorsis or at least the process has slowed down very-very much. No more yellowing!!!!!! Yes!!!!

How long does it take for any of the plants to start flourishing?

Does warm water (85 degrees F) inhibt plant growth?

I tried adding over 100 ppm of potassium, but haven't seen any growth? What is a recommended potassium level for most plants?

I've installed a dosing pump to dose 1/2 to 2 teaspoons of liquid sugar (the dosing regimen has to be carefully monitored when adding sugar, so as not to cause a bacterial bloom) to lower nitrates up to 5 ppm. I can now cut back on water changes, and just perform 10 to 15% water changes bi-weekly.

I've reasearched some facts about flourite and found it that leaches mostly iron, so I think Iron tabs along with flourish tabs are just as good. One question though: Is iron sucrate any good compared to iron gluconate? Which has more potential, because I'm using both?

Tech Support AN · #30 10-16-2009, 17:28

I'm sooooo glad to hear that the Tabs and the Flourish are working for your plants! I had a feeling they would! :-) The first step in the recovery process is the fact that they have stopped yellowing and having necrosis. Now they have to replenish the nutrients that they have been lacking for so long and then I believe you will begin to see growth again. So in other words, they have to catch up and then move forward. How the plants will react to warmer waters is going to be heavily species dependent. 85 does seem a little warm for most plants, but I'm sure there are many that can tolerate that temperature. Here at Seachem, we keep most of our planted tanks in the range of 78-80. As far as Potassium goes, again, that is really going to depend on the species. I apologize for saying that all the time, but it is very true and hard for us to give an exact number. It is amazing how plants can have so many different requirements, but if you think about all the different environments that they come from, it makes sense. Anyway, iron sucrate is going to be much less soluble than iron gluconate, therefore, much harder for the plants to take it in and utilize it. Like you already know I'm sure, iron gluconate allows the plants to take up the iron without expending any energy doing so, therefore, much more readily available. So to answer your question, you are better off using our Flourish Iron. Also, I would not necessarily say that Flourite is "leaching" iron, rather it contains a very high mineral content that allows the plants to absorb iron and minerals readily via the root zone. Leaching may mislead someone into thinking that it is being released into the water column, when it is actually only being utilized by the plant roots.